Rx2000HIPAA Digest, Volume 18 > > >#1 From: Steve_Marshall@cdh.org Subject: Re: self-funded groups >#2 From: lisa.cavitt@sih.net Subject: RE: Paper faxes not >covered under HIPAA >#3 From: clarkstanton@dwt.com Subject: RE: Paper faxes not >covered under HIPAA >#4 From: DB0853@aol.com Subject: Re: Paper faxes not >covered under HIPAA >#5 From: eellis@metalogics.com Subject: Re: Paper faxes not >covered under HIPAA >#6 From: Woosleew@aol.com Subject: Re: Paper faxes not >covered under HIPAA >#7 From: henrybasset@chesapeake.net Subject: Re: Paper faxes not >covered under HIPAA >#8 From: clarkstanton@dwt.com Subject: RE: Paper faxes not >covered under HIPAA > > >********** Message #1 ********** >From: Steve_Marshall@cdh.org >To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org >Subject: Re: self-funded groups >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:30:41 -0500 > > >As a provider, if this means that we have to provide the old billing >documents and the new electronic claims formats based on who can accept >which type, this decreases the potential savings to the industry and pretty >much leaves us in the current state of affairs. > >My understanding was that, we as a provider, are not obligated to provide >the information in any other format other than the new electronic standard. >The self funded plan would have to hire a clearinghouse to accept the data >and to put the data in a different format. This processing step cannot be >used as a reason for the plan to request additional information from the >provider or to delay payment. > > >********** Message #2 ********** >From: lisa.cavitt@sih.net >To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org >Subject: RE: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:45:02 -0500 > > >It is my understanding that once the information becomes electronic, it >will be covered under HIPAA. If information is faxed paper -to-paper, >where did the original "paper" come from? If the original "paper" was >electronic, printed then manually faxed, the information should be covered. > >Lisa Cavitt >Information Services >Southern Illinois Healthcare >E-Mail: lisa.cavitt@sih.net > > >********** Message #3 ********** >From: clarkstanton@dwt.com >To: "'Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org'" >Subject: RE: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:53:08 -0700 > >That is but one of the pratical problems the proposed privacy rule creates. >There is no question that there will be great difficulty in ever knowing >whether the information in a document has ever been electronically >transmitted or stored. For that reason you will likely want to treat all >IIHI as PHI for purposes of the privacy ruile. But there may be times that >it is important to know whether information is actually covered by the >privacy rule or not. > > > _______________________________ > > > > Clark Stanton > > Davis Wright Tremaine LLP > > One Embarcadero Center, Suite 600 > > San Francisco 94111 > > phone (415) 276-6538 > > fax (415) 276-6599 > > clarkstanton@dwt.com > > http://www.ehealthlaw.com > > http://www.dwt.com/lawdir/WCStanton.htm > > _______________________________ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [SMTP:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 8:08 AM > > To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > Subject: RE: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA > > > > > > The problem, of course, is that when you receive a fax on paper you >don't > > know if it was sent from paper or computer/faxmodem. So in practice, >you > > have to treat all faxes as protected, don't you? > > > > Pat Carter, JD > > Gray Plant Mooty Mooty & Bennett, PA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [mailto:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > > Sent: May 05, 2000 3:45 PM > > To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > Subject: RE: Paper covered under HIPAA > > > > > > > > According to the DHHS preamble to the proposed privacy rule, a "paper to > > paper" fax does not constitute an electronic transmission of the record > > for > > purposes of HIPAA. On the other hand, a fax sent from or to a computer > > would be considered electronic for HIPAA purposes. Of course, a >document > > that is sent by paper to paper fax could still be covered by HIPAA if it > > was > > in electronic form either before or after it was faxed. > > > _______________________________ > > > > > > Clark Stanton > > > Davis Wright Tremaine LLP > > > One Embarcadero Center, Suite 600 > > > San Francisco 94111 > > > phone (415) 276-6538 > > > fax (415) 276-6599 > > > clarkstanton@dwt.com > > > http://www.ehealthlaw.com > > > http://www.dwt.com/lawdir/WCStanton.htm > > > _______________________________ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [SMTP:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > > > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 10:10 AM > > > To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > > Subject: Paper covered under HIPAA > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/5/00 11:06:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > > Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org writes: > > > > > > > Errick, an extention of your comments, it is my understanding HIPAA > > > > "transactions" contemplate electronically produced paper. > > > > > > > > Pete Biagiotti > > > > > > > > > > Pete, You're right. > > > > > > If an electronic transmission is used to create a hard copy, then that > > > hard > > > copy AND ALL of progeny are covered under the HIPAA regs. > > > > > > So if you FAX a record to someone, the FAX machine prints it out: the > > > printout is covered under HIPAA. If that FAX printout is used to make > > > copies, then those copies are ALSO covered under HIPAA, even though >they > > > were > > > not technically "transmitted". > > > > > > > > > Errick E. Woosley, MPA > > > 3X HCSG > > > (513) 587-3100 > > > > > > >********** Message #4 ********** >From: DB0853@aol.com >To: rx2000hipaa@rx2000.org >Subject: Re: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:31:45 EDT > >Where can I read the preamble? Does anyone have the actual website for the >entire document??? > >Thank you > >********** Message #5 ********** >From: eellis@metalogics.com >To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org >Subject: Re: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:10:03 -0400 > >This is a correct interpretation. Information location (on an electronic >system) dictates progeny. In this case if the source OR destination is an >electronic record, HIPAA applies. > >ernie ellis >eellis@metalogics.com > >Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org wrote: > > > I suspect that a paper-to-paper fax could also be interpreted to be (at > > least partially) covered by HIPAA privacy if the information entered on > > the original paper was even manually copied out of an electronic > > record. "HIPAA protects the information itself, not the record in which > > the information appears." > > > > So as Pat Carter so aptly noted: "So in practice, you have to treat all > > faxes as protected, don't you?" > > > > Dave Feinberg > > Rensis Corporation [A Consulting Company] > > 206-617-1717 > > DAFeinberg@computer.org > > > > Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org wrote: > > > > > > The problem, of course, is that when you receive a fax on paper you >don't > > > know if it was sent from paper or computer/faxmodem. So in practice, >you > > > have to treat all faxes as protected, don't you? > > > > > > Pat Carter, JD > > > Gray Plant Mooty Mooty & Bennett, PA > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [mailto:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > > > Sent: May 05, 2000 3:45 PM > > > To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > > Subject: RE: Paper covered under HIPAA > > > > > > According to the DHHS preamble to the proposed privacy rule, a "paper >to > > > paper" fax does not constitute an electronic transmission of the >record for > > > purposes of HIPAA. On the other hand, a fax sent from or to a >computer > > > would be considered electronic for HIPAA purposes. Of course, a >document > > > that is sent by paper to paper fax could still be covered by HIPAA if >it was > > > in electronic form either before or after it was faxed. > > > > _______________________________ > > > > > > > > Clark Stanton > > > > Davis Wright Tremaine LLP > > > > One Embarcadero Center, Suite 600 > > > > San Francisco 94111 > > > > phone (415) 276-6538 > > > > fax (415) 276-6599 > > > > clarkstanton@dwt.com > > > > http://www.ehealthlaw.com > > > > http://www.dwt.com/lawdir/WCStanton.htm > > > > _______________________________ > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [SMTP:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > > > > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 10:10 AM > > > > To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > > > Subject: Paper covered under HIPAA > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/5/00 11:06:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > > > Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org writes: > > > > > > > > > Errick, an extention of your comments, it is my understanding >HIPAA > > > > > "transactions" contemplate electronically produced paper. > > > > > > > > > > Pete Biagiotti > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete, You're right. > > > > > > > > If an electronic transmission is used to create a hard copy, then >that > > > > hard > > > > copy AND ALL of progeny are covered under the HIPAA regs. > > > > > > > > So if you FAX a record to someone, the FAX machine prints it out: >the > > > > printout is covered under HIPAA. If that FAX printout is used to >make > > > > copies, then those copies are ALSO covered under HIPAA, even though >they > > > > were > > > > not technically "transmitted". > > > > > > > > > > > > Errick E. Woosley, MPA > > > > 3X HCSG > > > > (513) 587-3100 > > > > > > > > >********** Message #6 ********** >From: Woosleew@aol.com >To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org >Subject: Re: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:33:46 EDT > >Also, If the FAX looks to be anything that is other than handwritten it is >probably stored electronically ... I know some of you are still using >Selectrics to register patients and produce bills, but not many. >(Hardcopy) >Progeny of electronically stored material is covered. In spite of your >Amen, >it sounds like you may be splitting hairs. Hairs I am not willing to >advise >my clients to risk. > >Careful > >Errick E. Woosley, MPA >3X HCSG >(513) 587-3100 > >********** Message #7 ********** >From: henrybasset@chesapeake.net >To: >Subject: Re: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:44:42 -0400 > >Folks, lest you forget -fax is electronic transmission. As a matter of >fact, >it's easier to intercept fax than it is to hack a computer. Isn't >protection >the key to all of this? > >Jeff Stutzman >Healthcare ISAC >www.info-security.net > > > > From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > Organization: Rensis Corporation [A Consulting Company] > > Reply-To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:13:24 -0700 > > To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > Subject: Re: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA > > > > > > I suspect that a paper-to-paper fax could also be interpreted to be (at > > least partially) covered by HIPAA privacy if the information entered on > > the original paper was even manually copied out of an electronic > > record. "HIPAA protects the information itself, not the record in which > > the information appears." > > > > So as Pat Carter so aptly noted: "So in practice, you have to treat all > > faxes as protected, don't you?" > > > > Dave Feinberg > > Rensis Corporation [A Consulting Company] > > 206-617-1717 > > DAFeinberg@computer.org > > > > > > > > Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org wrote: > >> > >> The problem, of course, is that when you receive a fax on paper you >don't > >> know if it was sent from paper or computer/faxmodem. So in practice, >you > >> have to treat all faxes as protected, don't you? > >> > >> Pat Carter, JD > >> Gray Plant Mooty Mooty & Bennett, PA > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [mailto:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > >> Sent: May 05, 2000 3:45 PM > >> To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > >> Subject: RE: Paper covered under HIPAA > >> > >> According to the DHHS preamble to the proposed privacy rule, a "paper >to > >> paper" fax does not constitute an electronic transmission of the record >for > >> purposes of HIPAA. On the other hand, a fax sent from or to a computer > >> would be considered electronic for HIPAA purposes. Of course, a >document > >> that is sent by paper to paper fax could still be covered by HIPAA if >it was > >> in electronic form either before or after it was faxed. > >>> _______________________________ > >>> > >>> Clark Stanton > >>> Davis Wright Tremaine LLP > >>> One Embarcadero Center, Suite 600 > >>> San Francisco 94111 > >>> phone (415) 276-6538 > >>> fax (415) 276-6599 > >>> clarkstanton@dwt.com > >>> http://www.ehealthlaw.com > >>> http://www.dwt.com/lawdir/WCStanton.htm > >>> _______________________________ > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [SMTP:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > >>> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 10:10 AM > >>> To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > >>> Subject: Paper covered under HIPAA > >>> > >>> > >>> In a message dated 5/5/00 11:06:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >>> Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org writes: > >>> > >>>> Errick, an extention of your comments, it is my understanding HIPAA > >>>> "transactions" contemplate electronically produced paper. > >>>> > >>>> Pete Biagiotti > >>>> > >>> > >>> Pete, You're right. > >>> > >>> If an electronic transmission is used to create a hard copy, then that > >>> hard > >>> copy AND ALL of progeny are covered under the HIPAA regs. > >>> > >>> So if you FAX a record to someone, the FAX machine prints it out: the > >>> printout is covered under HIPAA. If that FAX printout is used to make > >>> copies, then those copies are ALSO covered under HIPAA, even though >they > >>> were > >>> not technically "transmitted". > >>> > >>> > >>> Errick E. Woosley, MPA > >>> 3X HCSG > >>> (513) 587-3100 > >>> > > > > >********** Message #8 ********** >From: clarkstanton@dwt.com >To: "'Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org'" >Subject: RE: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:41:01 -0700 > >The preamble is in the Federal Register of November 3, 1999. You can find >it (as well as the preambles for the other proposed HIPAA rules, and much >much more) at the DHHS Administrative Simplification website: >http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/admnsimp/index.htm > > > _______________________________ > > > > Clark Stanton > > Davis Wright Tremaine LLP > > One Embarcadero Center, Suite 600 > > San Francisco 94111 > > phone (415) 276-6538 > > fax (415) 276-6599 > > clarkstanton@dwt.com > > http://www.ehealthlaw.com > > http://www.dwt.com/lawdir/WCStanton.htm > > _______________________________ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org [SMTP:Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:32 AM > > To: Rx2000HIPAA@rx2000.org > > Subject: Re: Paper faxes not covered under HIPAA > > > > > > Where can I read the preamble? Does anyone have the actual website for > > the entire document??? > > > > Thank you > >